Someday, we will conquer the battle over organized religion and begin the worldwide conversion to an academic, secualr, scientific, and professional society based upon globally beneficial laws upon a foundation of natural principles.
Until then, we will be forced to "deal" with religion, religious people, religious organizations and their never-ending quest to eventually convert others to the madness of searching for peace and spirituality in idols, buildings, icons and historical figures.
It is unbelieveable that some just don't have the courage to test their own internal spirituality, or have the "guts" to think for themselves and look inside and ask what you really beleive, what you are really afraid of, and what you want in life. Instead, like co-dependent battered spouses, or drug addicts, they returning to the feeding troughs of religion and superstition.
I feel sorry for those that cannot break free. I am angry at those that know and yet persist and influence others in the same direction.
Utopian Reformist
JoinedPosts by Utopian Reformist
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
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22
The concept of sin?
by El blanko inok, here is one that jabs into my mind occasionally.
the concept of 'sin' and the fallen state of man is rather profound and used to blow my mind, especially when paul broke down the concept when writing about the struggle with the fleshly state.
i could relate to those words and it was originally one of the main reasons i moved towards the scriptures (that, and the carrot of living forever of course
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Utopian Reformist
I feel that greatest sin of all has been committed by whoever or whatever is responsible for all existence. If an intelligent being, or living intelligence or consciousness does exist and is aware of our state, then from my human vantage point, based on my human experience, that intelligence is the greatest sinner of all.
How could any intelligent entity sit idly by watching humans struggle with questions of origin, the future, death, life and beyond and never make a verifiable physical attempt and actually communicate with life on this planet? I could not have children wondering about my existence, my name, my whereabouts, my origins or history and then expect rational obedient productive behavior all of the time.
That's why religion is absurd.
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
Dear Myelaine (obviously still a believer of sorts):
Did I mention anywhere in my post that I died and returned form the grave to report nothing exists after death? Obviously I did not, thus, your question/statement about that was irrelevant, out of context and absurd.
Since NO ONE has ever died under examination and observation by others and returned under the same observation and examination by others, NO ONE can confirm any of the superstitious ideas contained in religious writings about death. Thus, to allow your psyche to be held hostage by an unscientific, unproven human writing over fear of punishment and fear of death is ludicrous.
I guess when the popular evangelists, religious leaders, popes, imams, etc can show me absolute eyewitness documented, physical, audio-visual proof of the state of things beyond death, I might acquire a religious faith. Until then, my personal spirituality is about my own internal reflections, my constant struggles to survive, to produce good, to avoid bad, and to attempt to harmonize and co-exist with all forms of life in the best way possible every day I am alive. Inner peace is accepting the unknown without accepting responsibility for the unknown. I did not create life or death, thus I am not responsible for their explanation. I can only respond to their effects.
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Proof of Jesus existance
by Jew in.
to all christians, or others, is there any proof of the promised messiah being jesus of nazareth and if so, how can you be sure if he existed?
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Utopian Reformist
I believe HOOBERUS has done a noteworthy job of compiling evidence that a man named Jesus stirred up controversy with liberal, philanthropic teachings, minimalist lifestyle, and an ancient version of anti-establishmentism. Also, there is enough evidence to warrant at least the possibility that all of the writings are referencing the same human who wound up being executed under Pilate's governance.
Now, NONE OF THAT PROVES ANY OF JESUS' MIRACLES CONTAINED IN JEWISH CHRISITIAN SCRIPTURE, NOR DOES ANY OF THAT PROVE THAT JESUS WAS ANYTHING OTHER THAN HUMAN, NOR DOES ANY OF THAT PROVE HE WAS SOME SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.
All we can scientifically, logically and morally accept is that a man named Jesus was controversial, ahead of his time, forward thinking, spiritual, humanitarian, multi-cultural and possibly very liberal, almost a utopian like socialist with orwellian thoughts, and he angered the authorities, refused to cease his activities, gained a large following, was the subject of fantastic rumors, and then was was executed.
That's all we can confirm.
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Serena Williams (Dishonors) American Flag!
by Voyager infriends, i apologize if this is old information.
sometimes i can't keep up with (all) the posts here.
the thread lists this as (janurary 25, 2003) so thats why i thought it to be old.. i remember that serena williams had (won) the cup and championship, and was photographed carrying the american flag, or engaging in what (some people) considered as (idolatry),--but what was (news) to me, was the fact that she was also photographed (dishonoring) the american flag as well.
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Utopian Reformist
Could there be a more useless topic? Now here is a real show stopper, Serena Williams, like most of today's young americans, does not have a clue about flag etiquette. Well, there goes the country! As if properly caring for the flag solves economic problems, or feeds the homeless, or brings troops home, or stops the war on terror, or does anything for anybody productive for that matter?
But, somehow, it must take an enormous amount of intellect to siphon this minutiae and display it here for public fodder. I get inflamed when ridiculous topics like this are presented as if they actually contain substance or merit. Who cares whatever happens to a piece of cloth? It is just a flag, get over it and get a life and find a way to be productive without annoying the general public and casting foolish aspersions to popular people you do not know in person.
Unbelievable!
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
The points I made about religoius belief systems, their organizers and adherents being dangerous due to the control, propogation and discrimination policies usually cleverly hidden as biblical agendas was not directed at individuals. The level of presumption and arrogance is collective to all religions.
And it is arrogant to assume that an ancient set of man made writings is somehow divinie in nature, inspired by another intelligence, or includes absolute truth. All religious writings fail two important tests that contradict one of the purposes religion claims to pursue:
1. All religions and their writings claim that all mankind will be united; however, it is ironic that all religions require that mankind submit and obey their own particular requirements. How is that liberating? From what authority, other than a book written by other humans does any group acquire the audacity to dictate how the rest of mankind should regulate their personal beliefs, and condemn all others to death or conversion? Is that loving or logical, no, but it exists in Islam, Judaism and Christianity and Hindism. It is supreme arrogance on display.
2. All religions and their writings claim and publish the origin of nature, death, the future, the spirit dimension, and base promises of life and punishment and death in the form of warnings, accounts, and so called good news in order to garner control by fear over people. It is only the irrational fear of the unknown that further prolongs the fear of natural death and continues propogating superstition. Thus, religion thrives without having actually proven anything, accomplishing anything or delivering any results. It is the greatest marketing phenomenon, better than Microsoft.
So, as soon as people realize you will never find an answer about the existence and state of being in any other realms, or even after natural death (no matter what cause), people can then accept the current life span, make logical balanced decisions based on facts, not faith, and actually make better progress and achieve a higher form of personal spirituality realizing there is no absolute truth about our origins, YET.
That was the crux of my discussion. I was not out to make Jedi. I could easily post in a number of superfluous threads and stack up numbers for making Jedi. Simon can make me a novice all over again, I do not care.
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
Besides, none of us wait for other humans or religious people to tell us when to use the bathroom, when to eat, when to breathe, etc. So, why do we always need to be told to practice good? Think about it. It really is a weakness.
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
If you want the world to be a better place, and want a better life, then start now and become the change you are trying to find elsewhere inside a building or thru another human. Start making life better, give, support, love, help, etc.. Who is stopping any of you and why do you need validation from religion? It is so illogical and pathetic.
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245
Are Christians harmless?
by gumby infirst off....let me qualify something.
lets keep this to modern day christians in civilized lands.. many on this board are non-believers, and there are quite a number of christians.....so we have a mix.. non believers feel they need to speak out concerning what they have come to understand regarding the bibles authenticity to believers because they feel these ones need to at least see the sceptical side so they can make an honest choice.. believers feel they need to speak out to others concerning what they have come to understand about salvation.
here's the deal..............if believers can live a happy, good, healthy life, and take this to the grave with them..........should a non-believer try to mess all that up.....or leave well enough alone?.
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Utopian Reformist
I find that ALL religious labels are potentially harmful. It is only a question of time. No matter how altruistic, pacifistic, humanitarian any religious person might be, the simple fact is that all forms of religion practice with PREJUDICE and ARROGANCE!
Yes, I said it. No human that has ever lived on this planet has been proven to be the source of the universe, nature or creation. Thus, it takes quite a bit of presumption and arrogance to create belief systems that exaplin the unexplainable, create labels, writings and establish rules for other humans that were not created directly by anyone.
So, even the Dalai Lama, Ghandi and Jesus expected adherents to adopt their thinking or emulate their lifestyle and accept a label. Humans should practice the noble things they admire in religion from the heart, without prompting, without being told and whether or not anyone is noticing or giving a reward. You don't need to worship anyone, follow anyone or have a label to practice kindness, mercy, love etc. Membership is not a requirement for practicing love. It's all a weakness and coping mechanism.
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announcement!
by zev infinally!.
after nearly 3 years, thousands of dollars, and allot of stress and grief,.... a judge of the massachusetts family probate court, bristol county massachusetts has granted my divorce!
this is one happy camper in rhode island!
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Utopian Reformist
Hey Harold! This is Mario from Johnston. Congratulations! As you may have heard, I am almost finished with the process myself. Best wishes and stay healthy!